Concise Minutes - Finance Committee

Meeting Venue: Hybrid - Committee

room 4 Ty Hywel and video conference

via Zoom

Meeting date: Wednesday, 7 May 2025

Meeting time: 09.30 - 12.30
This meeting can be viewed
on Senedd TV at:
http://senedd.tv/en/15094

Hybrid

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Attendance

Category	Names
Members of the Senedd:	Peredur Owen Griffiths MS (Chair) Mike Hedges MS Sam Rowlands MS Buffy Williams MS (In place of Rhianon Passmore MS)
Witnesses:	Ken Skates MS, Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, Welsh Government Alex Walters, Deputy Director, Public and Integrated Transport, Welsh Government Andrew Hobden, Economist, Welsh Government James Burgess, Head of Bus and Community Transport, Welsh Government Margaret Kelly, Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman Andrew Crawford, Acting Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Ger Deering, Office of the Ombudsman (Ireland), Ombudsman and Information Commissioner for Ireland Nick Bennett, former Public Services Ombudsman for Wales
Committee Staff:	Owain Roberts (Clerk) Sian Giddins (Second Clerk) Mike Lewis (Deputy Clerk) Božo Lugonja (Researcher) Christian Tipples (Researcher) Gruffydd Owen (Legal Adviser)

<AI1>

Registration

</AI1>

<AI2>

Private pre-meeting

</AI2>

<AI3>

1 Introduction, apologies, substitutions and declarations of interest

1.1 The Chair welcomed Members to the meeting of the Finance Committee.

1.2 Apologies were received from Rhianon Passmore MS. Buffy Williams MS substituted for Rhianon Passmore MS.

</AI3>

<AI4>

2 Paper(s) to note

2.1 The papers were noted.

</AI4>

<AI5>

2.1 PTN 1- Disused Mine and Quarry Tips (Wales) Bill: Welsh Government's response to the Finance Committee's report - 25 April 2025

</AI5>

<AI6>

2.2 PTN 2 - Letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Welsh Language: Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill – Revised Regulatory Impact Assessment - 28 April 2025

</AI6>

<AI7>

2.3 PTN 3 - Letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning: Inter-Ministerial Group for Business and Industry (IMG) - 30 April 2025

</AI7>

<AI8>

2.4 PTN 4 - Letter from the Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Energy and Planning: Tourism Inter-Ministerial Group (IMG) - 29 April 2025

</AI8>

<AI9>

2.5 PTN 5 - Letter from the Public Services Ombudsman for Wales: Review into operations, processes and investigations - Councillor Code of Conduct Complaints - 29 April 2025

</AI9>

<AI10>

2.6 PTN 6 - Second Supplementary Budget 2024-25: Welsh Government response - 30 April 2025

</AI10>

<AI11>

3 Post-legislative review of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019: Evidence session 2

3.1 The Committee took evidence on the Post-legislative review of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019 from Margaret Kelly, Northern Ireland Public Services Ombudsman; Andrew Crawford, Acting Scottish Public Services Ombudsman; and Ger Deering, Office of the Ombudsman (Ireland), Ombudsman and Information Commissioner for Ireland.

3.2 The Committee agreed to write to the witnesses with questions that weren’t reached during the evidence session.

</AI11>

<AI12>

Break

</AI12>

<AI13>

4 Post-legislative review of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019: Evidence session 3

4.1 The Committee took evidence on the Post-legislative review of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019 from Nick Bennett, former Public Services Ombudsman for Wales.

</AI13>

<AI14>

Break

</AI14>

<AI15>

5 Bus Services (Wales) Bill: Evidence session

5.1 The Committee took evidence on the Bus Services (Wales) Bill from Ken Skates MS, Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales, Welsh Government; Alex Walters, Deputy Director, Public and Integrated Transport, Welsh Government; Andrew Hobden, Economist, Welsh Government; and James Burgess, Head of Bus and Community Transport, Welsh Government.

5.2 The Cabinet Secretary for Transport and North Wales agreed to provide a note on the following:

· the generalised journey time approach;

· the cost of transitioning to a zero-emissions bus fleet;

· the research being undertaken by the Wales Centre for Public Policy on success factors for contracting and awarding bus franchising, once this research has been completed;

· the methodology adopted by Transport for Wales in developing the ‘aspirational network’;

· the 10 full-time equivalents required for the bus reform model which has been estimated in the Regulatory Impact Assessment at a cost of approximately £1.2 million per year, in particular, further detail on how the £115,000 annual salary for staff was calculated, and a break down of the functions of these roles and the costs associated with them.

</AI15>

<AI16>

6 Motion under Standing Order 17.42 (ix) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting.

6.1 The motion was agreed.

</AI16>

<AI17>

7 Bus Services (Wales) Bill: Consideration of evidence

7.1 The Committee considered the evidence received.

</AI17>

<AI18>

8 Post-legislative review of the Public Services Ombudsman (Wales) Act 2019: Consideration of evidence

8.1 The Committee considered the evidence received.

</AI18>

<AI19>

9 First Supplementary Budget 2025-26: Directly Funded Bodies

9.1 The Committee considered the supplementary budget requests of the directly funded bodies.

</AI19>

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